Greetings Y’all–
Here is a little project my friend Albert Handal, Pastor of the Stonehill Seventh-day Adventist Church in Austin, TX came up with and invited me to be a part of. I am grateful for the opportunity to learn through collaboration and to help network folk which are working towards & for the great day of Lord’s soon return! I hope everyone will enjoy and be blessed, especially our fellow Pastors!
Greetings Y’all–
Here is a little project my friend Albert Handal, Pastor of the Stonehill Seventh-day Adventist Church in Austin, TX came up with and invited me to be a part of. I am grateful for the opportunity to learn through collaboration and to help network folk which are working towards & for the great day of Lord’s soon return! I hope everyone will enjoy and be blessed, especially our fellow Pastors!
As I head into an important meeting August 19 I am in great prayer for the Spirit of God’s leading. Since I always believe in being honest on this blog and in life, I thought I would share the struggle I am having.
My position on the issues of the day are pretty clear, if you read this blog you know I am in support of Women’s Ordination. I believe the day our church took the position to allow women pastors, we should have also taken the position of ordaining. Otherwise it feels like saying “you get paid .75 cents on the dollar” or “here is the title with none of the authority.”
I am disappointed that the current movement is not being lead by our General Conference, and I am finding it hard to trust that things will be different in the future.
**Quick side note, the current administration is getting all the blame, but let us not forget that the previous administration spoke of moving forward on this issue and took a silent survey of the World Division Presidents and pulled back, the current admin is just vocal and so “He” and they get the brunt of our angst, but is an impediment any different whether vocal or silent?
So what is my struggle? My struggle is this: I still believe in the authority of Ellen White in my life as a Seventh-day Adventist, and since she is sleeping in the ground ’till Jesus comes, all I can go by in regards to her counsel are the words we have on the written page. Thus when my friend Pastor Shawn Brace posted two quotes on his Facebook page my struggle has been increased. I have seen the quotes before, but maybe as I am in a great season of prayer over this issue and our church I saw them with new eyes.
I will share those quotes below, but first I want to share one other thing that has increased my struggle. A conversation I had with a fellow pastor, a female pastor, and she said,
“Chad I very much want ordination without regard to gender to happen, but if it happens apart from the General Conference, then I am only recognized in one or two Unions as ordained & if I leave those Unions it has no value. Then all we have essentially done is release the tension a little, much like when certain conferences voted to change ordination policy a few years back, or certain churches voted to ordain their female pastors, it did not really change the issue, women still are not recognized on equal status in the EYES (GC) of the church. If we do this now, will it only release the pressure off the General Conference for a season and in actuality further delay what ultimately needs to happen, equal ordination for all?”
Twice Paul told us that, “Everything is permissible–but not everything is beneficial.” (1 Cor. 10:23 & 1 Cor. 6:12). So I am praying, not what is most permissible, but what will be most beneficial to the cause of God & to the cause of recognition for women by ALL the church?
May we all pray, and may God give us wisdom.
EGW Quotes Pastor Shawn posted that stirred my struggle:
“. . . I have been instructed that there is a great work to be done in America. . .
“The world is filled with strife for the supremacy. The spirit of pulling away from fellow laborers, the spirit of disorganization, is in the very air we breathe. By some, all efforts to establish order are regarded as dangerous–as a restriction of personal liberty, and hence to be feared as popery. These deceiv
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Over the last four years of parenting, especially the last two as a parent of not just one but two boys, I have realized something: my response is many times the greatest component in defusing or amplifying a situation. Oh how many times my boys have been fighting and I’ve come in like a bull in a china cabinet, and now rather than two petulant children, there are three.
Right now in Adventism the children are having a ‘bit of tustle over the issue of women’s ordination. On both sides I’ve seen various degrees of incivility from the mild quip to downright meanness. I have mourned at the disrespectful dialogue in which I have heard of folk speak against our world church leaders, moving beyond disagreements over positions to personal attacks. I have blushed, no cringed to see magazines distributed around camp meetings & online that have images that provide the subtle indication that a woman who desires to be a pastor is thus desiring to be a man or a lesbian. So much of it is very shameful and petty!
We are at many levels petulant children in a squabble.
And our parents the General Conference it seems have in their response raised the temperature rather than cooling things down.
In the moments when my kids are fighting I want to remind them that they are brothers. I want to remind them of how to treat each other and how to respond to each other. It is very important then in those moments for me to be mindful of my response towards each individual child. It is important for me to be mindful of the words I speak towards them. It is EXTREMELY important that I don’t make one of them feel less than the other!
It seems our parents have struggled in all these areas. We were not immediately reminded that though we were having a disgreement, we were really on the same side and hopefully fighting for the same cause, we were initially reminded of policy. There has been a failure to draw our minds to our brotherhood and sisterhood. The words that have at times been chosen to represent the world leadership have not provided a sense of calm, but at many times have seemed threatening, even to the point where the statement, “this is not a threat” has needed to be made. Finally, through the language that has been spoken it has most definitely felt like there was a superior child and a less than child, even though as we have seen both sides have been unruly.
Let me give an example (this is only an example the two individuals to be spoken of are only representative of the children, not actually the squabbling children) We had two well recognized preachers, two friends whom have worked together in the past on common causes. Two individuals that have at the bequest of the world church stepped forward and provided spiritual guidance to the masses. They preached opposing sermons. Both sermons were against the stated General Conference position: The first against women as pastors, a position out of line with that of the General Conference. The second in favor of women’s ordination a position also out of step with the General Conference.
Our parents though in response to the latter position have used words like “position of dissension” which means “a disagreement that leads to discord.” I don’t believe either individual in preaching their sermons were seeking discord, both were simply expressing their views and interpretation of scripture that BOTH went against the official church stance. The latter position has also been viewed as a position of “ego & desire for supremecy.”
This type of language makes one child feel much less than the other. That both children being out of step with the parents directed points of views, yet one is getting a mighty slap on the wrist while to the other there is silence. Now I know one could argue that, “well one child only called for a different stance, but nothing happened. The other called for a different stance and a whole whirlwind has happened.” And I guess again I would refer to my short experience of parenting do we only deal with a situation when the outcome of wrong committed is bad, or do we deal with wrong even if there is no evident consequence.
Right now the children of our church are in a squabble and we need our parents–our 1 President, 9 Vice-Presidents, & 13 Division Uncles to see us through it, not join in the fray.
“I can’t”
those are the words my Dad spoke to me not more than 2 1/2 years ago. That was his response to a question I had asked him, “Dad will you do a Bible study with one of our contacts?”
“I can’t”
Let me tell you a little about my Dad, almost all of his adult life he has been a teacher. He taught in Adventist academies for about 6 years and then at Pacific Union College, Loma Linda University, & Andrews University Dayton, OH campus, & University of the Pacific. He has a degree in Education, Physical Therapy, and it seems like there may be something else. He has a Master’s degree, two in fact, and an earned Doctorate. He started a Master’s Physical Therapy program from scratch and was the director of it for 10+ years.
“I can’t”
Seemed like a pretty ridiculous answer!
And even more importantly than all the above, and really all that mattered, he was constantly telling me how much he loved Jesus and how much Jesus was blessing his life.
“I can’t”
Was then an even more unbelievable answer!
“I can’t”
Is the answer I hear a lot when I talk to folk about giving Bible studies to another individual.
I used to accept this answer as legit.
“I can’t”
I believed some people really couldn’t, I no longer believe that.
Why?
Because–
“I can’t”
Doesn’t fit at all with the promises of scripture–
“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. –Matthew 28:19, 20.
“I can’t”
Really doesn’t go with, “I am with you always”
“But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” –Acts 1:8
“I can’t”
Doesn’t work with, “you shall receive power”
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.” –John 14:12-14
“I can’t”
Does not correlate with, “greater works than these he will do” “whatever you ask” “If you ask anything…I will do.”
“I can’t”
Does not work with John 14:26 either,
“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.”
So even if my Dad had zero degrees and zero teaching experience, it would seem quite silly for a man that says he loves Jesus and is blessed by Jesus to say…
“I can’t”
“I can’t”
is foolish for any of us to say.
“But it is not my gift which is why…”
“I can’t”
Knowing the Bible and sharing what you know with another person has nothing to do with gifts. Because even if you are nervous, you can have word for word what you want to say right in front of you…and yes people
“CAN”
come to Jesus this way…and they DO!
So the only way
“I can’t”
works is if that is the answer to one question, “Are you capable of caring about the eternal salvation of another human being?”
If you can say…
“I can’t”
to that, okay you’re off the hook.
But that wouldn’t go with,
“But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven;” –Matthew 5:44, 45
In other words if you’re a Christian…a Jesus follower…
“I can’t”
NEVER works when it comes to sharing the truths of scripture with another human being.
So let’s be real and admit…
“I can’t”
is really
“I won’t”
and after we admit that, let’s repent of it…
And trust Jesus to help us move from…
“I can’t”
Which is…
“I won’t”
To
“I can!”
My Dad did and praise Jesus I have baptized several he has studied the Bible with.
The song is old, the clothes are old, but the good news of heaven is just as needed today as ever. Here is a beautiful testimony and moment with Joni Eareckson Tada & Vestal Goodman. Make sure you get 5 minutes in.
What a song! May we be witnesses of Jesus’ forgiveness!
I look at a lot of numbers. If you follow this blog, you know that “Church Growth” is the most tagged topic, and that naturally is about NUMBERS.
But of all the numbers I have written about I believe the numbers I am going to share with you in this blog are the most exciting thus far.
At the end of 2011 we decided to be a host site for the John Bradshaw/It Is Written evangelistic meetings being broadcast from Las Vegas.
One of our prayer warriors came to me with the idea that we get folk from in our church to pray for every single name on our membership roster and any others that we have in our “friends” list. That was a list of over 750 persons. I thought it was a great idea and so we went to our Prayer Director Kristin to see if something could be set-up. The decision was made to call folk to see if they would take a list of names to pray over.
After much calling & some emails Kristin had 7 individuals, not the number we were looking for :), that agreed to take a list of names to daily pray for. So they started with praying for all our active members.
But maybe more importantly, we began to pray for more prayer warriors!
That is a prayer we knew God wanted to answer in the affirmative, and He definitely has!
Today (ALL) just shy of 800 folk connected with our church are being prayed for daily by at last check 60 prayer warriors!
We started with 7 and we asked God to send more prayer warriors and now 5 months later we have 60 folks hitting their knees daily for their church & their church family!
I believe we have seen the difference. Between the Visalia Seventh-day Adventist Church & our northside church plant The Ark we’ve had 20 baptisms, 2 Professions of Faith (so 22 new Adventists), & 7 rebaptisms. An entire family is attending our church because they were led to do so in a dream, and 12+ more are in Bible studies.
In the past those are the things we have primarily prayed for, this year, while we have still prayed for decisions for Jesus, without much forethought our primary prayers and emphasis in church have been, “Jesus give us a greater spirit for prayer.”
The numbers the conference will look at & the numbers church growth statisticians look at are nice, but I believe that all those numbers are a direct result of the most exciting number of this year–SIXTY–60 interceding on behalf of the names on their lists.
I am so thankful for those 60 and I praise the Lord for the many more He will convict to be warriors in prayer for His people and for the city of Visalia.
Where do you live? What do your prayer warriors pray for? What would happen if you started praying less for church growth and more for prayer growth? Would your church grow anyway?
“It is a part of God’s plan to grant us, in answer to the PRAYER of faith, that which he would not bestow, did we not thus ask.” –Ellen G. White, The Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 4, p. 348.
I want to share with you the greatest danger regarding the issue of ordaining women that is swirling around the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
The greatest danger is not…
By ordaining women we will be opening the door to LGBT clergy. Yes, this is really an argument that is out there I have seen it with my own two eyes. I would say the vast majority of Seventh-day Adventists, even those that believe in ordaining women still hold to the truth that marriage is between a man & a woman. So this is not the greatest danger.
By ordaining women in North America we will alienate the world church, thus causing a great schism. The same countries that are against the ordination of women pastors are also against the ordination of women deacons and women elders. But to the credit of the world church they respect sticking with the denomination even when they don’t agree with all “her” rules, much better than some of us in my part of the world. So if we haven’t alienated them already, I highly doubt this issue will, no matter what the hyperbole is to the contrary. So this is not the greatest danger.
By ordaining women in North America we are embracing the feminist movement. NO! Why does a desire to have God’s calling recognized by the body of Christ have to signal an embrace of feminism? That is a sexist position. This is not the greatest danger of women’s ordination.
By ordaining women we are somehow promoting women to leave home and not be mothers as God called them to be. 75% of women participate in the labor force in the United States, making a choice to ordain women will not suddenly cause those other 25% to jump into ministry and abandon their families. Women work and women will become pastors with or without ordination. I’ve never heard one girl I know say, “well I was thinking of going into ministry, but since they don’t ordain me I’m going to stay home and have kids.” This is not the greatest danger of ordaining women.
By ordaining women we are opening the doors to the agenda of the liberal wing of the church. I’m 100% for women’s ordination and I would not consider myself a liberal (though maybe just by making that statement some of you are saying “yes you are” Trust me the liberals I know don’t agree with you:)) I want our church to be more conservative: To return to focusing on public proclamation of our foundational truths. To return to having it be a reality that the majority of SDA’s are vegetarians:) and believers in the prophetic ministry of Ellen G. White. I could go on, but the point is, I still think women should be ordained because it has nothing to do with liberal or conservative. It has to do with affirming those that God calls on an equal setting. This is not the greatest danger.
By NOT ordaining women we will completely turn off an entire generation! WRONG! My generation is already turned off and it has very little to do with the fact that we haven’t ordained women. Yes, many of us are bothered by this, but I don’t think this will cause a mass exodus from our church. Not anymore mass than has already occured. This is not the greatest danger of NOT ordaining women.
By NOT ordaining women we will miss out on some of the giftings that God has given to the church. REALLY? Doesn’t this limit God a little? Ellen White is the perfect example of if God wants to use a woman’s gifts, He’ll use a woman’s gifts! This is not the greatest danger of NOT ordaining women.
By NOT ordaining women we will not see revival. With great deference to my mentor, this is also a position I am not willing to take, because again it limits God to having His divine will being modified by the action of a committee. This is not the greatest danger of NOT ordaining women.
The GREATEST DANGER in regards to the ordination of women is that Satan will keep us talking about it to each other and in the meantime we won’t be talking about what we need to be talking about to those whom we need to be talking to: Telling a lost world about JESUS!
The following are the 10 most viewed posts on this blog for the month of April. Check out the ones you didn’t yet read.
So there you go the posts that were the most read in the month of April, 2012. Enjoy and be blessed!
April 26th will mark the 16th anniversary of my commitment to Christ. I don’t believe I really had any idea what that meant 16 years ago.
At the time I stood-up for Jesus it wasn’t because I had been attending Bible studies or spending a lot of time searching for God. I didn’t have any thought or hope that I would be saved. I didn’t have a high-regard for Christians. I wasn’t a fan of church. I wasn’t a fan of really anything…
So from my perspective on that Friday night April 26, 1996 it was without any warning that God spoke straight into my heart. He asked me a simple question, “Will you give me a chance?”
God didn’t force Himself. He didn’t yell or bully. But without a doubt I, yes even me, my heathen unbelieving self, knew it was God speaking to me as clear as if we had been talking face to face, and I knew a decision had to be made.
The devil was speaking to me as well though. He was telling me not to be a fool. Not to stand-up. To remember all the things I did that I couldn’t stop doing. He reminded me of the times I had seen others stand only to fall again, and I would surely fall flat!
But there was that voice still asking, “Will give me a chance?”
No one can say to me, “there is no great controversy.” Those voices were both strong and clear!
Yet the Holy Spirit kept asking, “Will you give me a chance?”
I have since analyzed that night and all the nights leading up to that night. I have identified the points where God was clearly working in my life. I have identified the power of prayer on my behalf and the power of struggle that caused me to want something better.
But on that night ALL I KNEW and ALL THAT MATTERED was that one voice, speaking above the din of my satan controlled life, and inviting me, asking me, “Will you give me a chance?”
Thank you, Lord, for saving my soul
Thank you, Lord, for making me whole
Thank you, Lord, for giving to me
Thy great salvation so rich and free
This post isn’t about people not attending church, it is about the attitude in which they attend church. Why am I thinking about this topic today? Because of a statement that was made to me yesterday–
An individual that attends both our established church and our church plant came up to me and said, “I think you do a better job preaching at The Ark (the church plant). You seem more relaxed.”
Now I have also noticed that I do seem to maybe flow a little better at “The Ark” but I’ve always looked at if from the perspective of, “well I’m preaching the message for the third time that day, it should be better.” But his next statement struck me…
“I think its because you know that everyone WANTS to be here, so there isn’t the critical spirit accompanying them, they just want to be here and learn.”
As I am sitting here on Sunday I am thinking about that statement & realizing there may be more truth to it than I’d like to admit.
Do people still (they did back in the day b/c it was the community connecting point) come to church for any other reason than want?
Is it guilt?
Is it societal expectation?
Is it habit?
Is it a social gathering?
Is it entertainment?
Is it an emotional response?
Is it family pressure?
Is it because the pastor has harrassed enough?
Is it because “this is just what we do?”
If it is anything other than a desire to deeply connect with God, and I am speaking here of those who claim to be Christians not guests or explorers of faith, if it is anything other than a desire to engage with the almighty is that satisfactory worship?
I think of the text in Revelation 3
So there seems to be the expectation within my praticular faith community, that if you support women’s ordination, believe drums are okay, and didn’t like the tone of the Presidential sermon at our General Conference Session back in June/July of 2010 then you are also against the General Conference Presidency of Ted Wilson.
Why?
What bothers me most about this expectation is that it so deeply reflects the politics of our culture! I’m pro-life, “Oh so you’re a Republican.” I’m anti-guns, anti-death penalty, “Oh so you’re a Democrat.” But wait, what if you’re all of those then what are you?
We have become a nation that tries to force people into boxes and against specific individuals based on a select few issues. And it seems the church is trying to do the same, which is unfortunate because when the church mimics the world it looks a lot less like Jesus and a lot more like the devil!
So yes, Elder Wilson and I disagree on women’s ordination, I haven’t agreed with several of his comments on music, I wasn’t particularly thrilled with his opening speech, and YES, I’m glad he is our General Conference President!
Why shouldn’t I be? Because of those issues?
I struggle with a certain wing of our church, many of whom are my friends, that are always sounding the cry for tolerance and yet the language used towards Ted Wilson and the open support and hope of his removal from office show absolute intolerance!
Y’all we are not Washington D.C. We are a church. A church that NO ONE is forced to be a part of! A church that if a person is a part of, hopefully it is because they believe Jesus is leading the church.
And if we are truly a church then should we not take the same position as David whom though Saul was pursuing him for his very life, David felt guilty about even harming the fabric of Saul’s robe. (That is not a comparison of Ted Wilson to Saul. Ted Wilson is a good & kind man!)
Shame on us if we have become so like the world and the world’s politics we fail to accept our leadership, which God has established, based on a few varying points of view.
I pray our Spectrum of tolerance grows us into acting more like a church and less like a political party!
I attended a funeral yesterday and in the procession from the church to the graveside I remembered this old post and a great tradition:
“The mother is a teacher, and to a great extent she moulds the character of her children.” (Ellen White, Signs of the Times, July, 1889).
Every morning when we get in the car the boys and I pray together. Today Dayton prayed for a safe trip, a fun day, & “Amen.” He then added, “And please Daddy don’t hit the trash cans (I do sometimes) because they can bleed a lot.”
I responded with, “Dayton, trash cans don’t bleed. They are an inanimate object.”
Yes I use big words like that around my kid, his latest favorite big word is “adultery” because he has been learning the commandments and likes to tell folk how adultery means “to have more than 1 wife, because God only wants us to have 1 wife, but Laban tricked Jacob and gave two daughters. But Jacob loved Rachel not Leah. But then later he loved Leah.”
Back to my story– “Dayton, trash cans don’t bleed. They are an inanimate object.”
Dayton: “Why don’t they Daddy?”
Me: “Because only humans and animals bleed.”
Dayton (verbatim): “Dad what was the first plague God sent on Pharaoh?”
Me: “Turning water to blood.”
Dayton: “Yes Daddy water to blood.”
Me: “You’re right Dayton Moses…”
Dayton: “Not Moses Daddy, Aaron was the one that spoke to Pharaoh.”
He’s 3 years and 6 months today.
Kids will retain and process logically the things we expose them to.